The Catholic Page Part 2
Concerning Purgatory, Works, & other matters

In this page, I will be discussing in more detail, Catholic teachings, or the implied or allowed teachings by Rome.
The Catholic church has many detailed teachings, but on some issues, they are quiet, covert or shrewd in some issues or doctrines. They have in the past tried to control information to the masses, such as Bibles. They also leave holes in their doctrines, of which allows people to fill them in with more detail; by imagination, tradition, revelations, visions, and so on. They have also had a record of closing their vaults of info to public scrutiny.

Is there any evidence of this? Look here: 
How this fire affects the souls of the departed the Doctors do not know, and in such matters it is well to heed the warning of the Council of Trent when it commands the bishops "to exclude from their preaching difficult and subtle questions which tend not to edification', and from the discussion of which there is no increase either in piety or devotion" (Sess. XXV, "De Purgatorio")."  


Vatican to open Nazi-era archives in bid to silence criticism
Associated Press 
VATICAN CITY--For years the Vatican has struggled to defend its wartime pope, Pius XII, against claims he was anti-Semitic and didn't do enough to save Jews from the Holocaust.

Now the Vatican is taking the extraordinary step of opening part of its secret archives ahead of schedule, in a bid to silence attacks against a man it is considering for sainthood. Starting Saturday, millions of Vatican documents from the years leading up to World War II will be available to scholars.


Vatican refuses comment on Croatian connection  
VATICAN ( -- Responding to charges made by the US  

State Department, a Vatican spokesman said the Holy See has "nothing to add" to previous statements regarding the conduct of the Vatican during World War II.  

The US State Department yesterday issued a statement indicating that some Vatican officials, acting through the pontifical college of St. Jerome, had helped Croatian war criminals to escape. Stuart Eizenstat, a ranking State Department official, added the charge that the Vatican may have used Nazi gold to facilitate the flight of the Croatians.  

The Vatican has already denied previous reports that Church officials acted as conduits to transfer Nazi gold supplies to Croatian officials.  

The American report claims that some Church officials-- who were not named-- had cooperated with the members of Ustasha, a Croatian nationalist group which had been implicated in a series of killings. The report did say, however, that there was no evidence that Pope Pius XII was aware of that cooperation.


Vatican Still Refuses To Open Holocaust Records To Jewish Scholars

JERUSALEM - Hebrew University Prof. Robert Wistrich said yesterday he is resigning from the Catholic-Jewish commission appointed to study the role of the Vatican during the Holocaust.  

Wistrich, who made the announcement at a session of the World Jewish Congress meeting in Jerusalem, said that as a result of the failure of the commission, Catholic-Jewish relations are at their lowest point since the formulation of Nostra Aetate, the 1965 Vatican document that expresses the church's new outlook toward Jews and Judaism...

The two resignations make it unlikely the commission will be able to continue. Wistrich said he feels this was his only option in the face of continued Vatican refusal to open its archives to commission members...

In July, the commission suspended its activities, following the Vatican's failure to answer 47 preliminary questions put to it by the entire commission and its refusal to give the scholars access to unpublished material in its archives...

Wistrich said he sent a long letter to Pope John Paul II in April, noting the contradiction between earlier papal statements and actions and the present atmosphere.  

The answer, conveyed by the "mutual friend" who delivered the letter, was the pope is not going to get involved...  

Wistrich also said in the way the Church presented material about the rescue of Jews, it blurred the fact that in well over 90 percent of the cases, the rescue work was on behalf of baptized Jews...

"The attempt to present Pius XII as a kind of hero of the resistance is a form of Catholic revisionism which I find has nothing to do with historical truth, but more to do with the internal political agenda of the Church," he said...


Pope Pius IX on December 8, 1864 issued an encyclical letter Quanta Cura, containing the Syllabus Errorum, in which he condemned freedom of conscience as “an insane folly” and freedom of the press as “a pestiferous error, which cannot be sufficiently detested.”   

 In the Syllabus Errorum Pope Pius stated: “No man is free to embrace and profess that religion which he believes to be true, guided by the light of reason.”   

Pope Gregory XVI (1831-46) viewed freedom of conscience and the press as absurd and mad concepts, not only within the church but in society as a whole.   

Sometimes Catholics will claim, that it was they, not the protestants, who initiated making Bibles for the masses. But here is a Catholic source claiming why the catholic church didn't:

Translating the Bible into the vernacular languages during the Middle Ages was simply impractical. Most vernacular languages at that time did not have an alphabet, so they could not be put into written form. Also only a few people could read.


This is a poor logic and untrue. This next source is an atheist , thus they are not biased between protestants or catholics, read their view on this:

Here’s why it all starts with Luther. So long as the Catholic Church and the European monarchies held the power in Europe, they also controlled education and access to spirituality, because the common people couldn’t read or understand the Latin which was used in the Bible and the church, so they were utterly dependent on their priests to tell them what they had to do to get to heaven. The Protestant Reformation spread the belief that common people could go directly to the scriptures and interpret them themselves– they didn’t need the priests to mediate between them and God. The Bible was translated into the vernacular languages, and people had a reason to want to learn to read. This leads to the gaining of knowledge (about something other than agriculture) by people who were not under the control of Catholic dogma, and the whole future rolls out from there.


And here is more info on how and why the Bible was brought and kept from the people:

Hobbling Scripture
Mary Ann Collins
(A Former Catholic Nun)

Since the Middle Ages there has been an ongoing conflict between those who want to see Scripture hobbled and those who want to see Scripture released so that it can function effectively in people's lives.

The Catholic Church hobbled Scripture by keeping the Bible in Latin and resisting its translation into the language of the common people.


Under Roman rule, Latin became a universal language. So when the Bible was originally translated from Greek and Hebrew into Latin, that made it more available to people. However, with the collapse of the Roman empire, Latin was spoken less and less. In time, only scholars understood it. The vast majority of people no longer spoke it.

Starting about 1080 there were many incidents where the Pope, Church councils, or individual bishops forbid the translation of the Bible into the language of the common people (the vernacular). [Note 2] Men such as William Tyndale were burned as heretics for translating the Bible into English. [Note 3]  

Laymen were not even allowed to read the Bible in Latin. Reading the Bible was considered to be proof that someone was a heretic. Men and women were burned at the stake for reading the Bible in Latin. [Note 4]

People were so hungry to know what the Bible said that when an English translation of the Bible was finally made available, people packed the church where it was kept, while men took turns reading the Bible out loud. As long as there was daylight, men kept reading the Bible while the crowds listened. [Note 5]


When I became a Catholic, the Mass was still in Latin. I was good at languages. I studied French in high school and college. I also studied three years of college Latin.

At High Mass, the Scriptures were sung in Latin. The Bible was a large, ornate book. The priest would cover it with incense, and bow before it, and sing the Scripture verses in Gregorian chant. I used to love to listen to Gregorian chant. The music was beautiful.

However, the one thing that I could not do was to understand the Scripture that was sung. With my three years of college Latin, I could sometimes understand the meaning of a word or a phrase. But that was nothing like understanding the Scripture passage.


Below are actual Catholic sources and quotes about stopping Bibles from reaching people:

Bible possession once banned by the Catholic Church!


Pope Innocent III stated in 1199:

... to be reproved are those who translate into French the Gospels, the letters of Paul, the psalter, etc. They are moved by a certain love of Scripture in order to explain them clandestinely and to preach them to one another. The mysteries of the faith are not to explained rashly to anyone. Usually in fact, they cannot be understood by everyone but only by those who are qualified to understand them with informed intelligence. The depth of the divine Scriptures is such that not only the illiterate and uninitiated have difficulty understanding them, but also the educated and the gifted (Denzinger-Schönmetzer, Enchiridion Symbolorum 770-771)


The Council of Toulouse, which met in November of 1229, about the time of the crusade against the Albigensians, set up a special ecclesiastical tribunal, or court, known as the Inquisition (Lat. inquisitio, an inquiry), to search out and try heretics. Twenty of the forty-five articles decreed by the Council dealt with heretics and heresy. It ruled in part:

Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.

The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon, ruled that:

"No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion."

-D. Lortsch, Historie de la Bible en France, 1910, p.14.

In 1408 the third synod of Oxford, England, banned unauthorized English translations of the Bible and decreed that possession of English translation's had to be approved by diocesan authorities. The Oxford council declared:

"It is dangerous, as St. Jerome declares, to translate the text of Holy Scriptures out of one idiom into another, since it is not easy in translations to preserve exactly the same meaning in all things. We therefore command and ordain that henceforth no one translate the text of Holy Scripture into English or any other language as a book, booklet, or tract, of this kind lately made in the time of the said John Wyclif or since, or that hereafter may be made, either in part or wholly, either publicly or privately, under pain of excommunication, until such translation shall have been approved and allowed by the Provincial Council. He who shall act otherwise let him be punished as an abettor or heresy and error."

At the ecumenical Council of Constance, in 1415, Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury, as "that pestilent wretch of damnable heresy who invented a new translation of the scriptures in his mother tongue." By the decree of the Council, more that 40 years after his death, Wycliffe's bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift river.

Pope Pius IV had a list of the forbidden books compiled and officially prohibited them in the Index of Trent (Index Librorum Prohibitorum) of 1559. This is an excerpt:

Rule I

All books which were condemned prior to 1515 by popes or ecumenical councils, and are not listed in this Index, are to stand condemned in the original fashion.

Rule II

Books of arch-heretics - those who after 1515 have invented or incited heresy or who have been or still are heads and leaders of heretics, such as Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Hubmaier, Schwenckfeld, and the like — whatever their name, title or argumentation — are prohibited without exception. As far as other heretics are concerned, only those books are condemned without exception which deal ex professo with religion. Others will be permitted after Catholic theologians have examined and approved them by the order of bishops and inquistors. Likewise, Catholic books written by those who subsequently fell into heresy or by those who after their lapse returned into the bosom of the Church can be permitted after approval by a theological faculty or the inquisition.

Rule III

Translations of older works, including the church fathers, made by condemned authors, are permitted if they contain nothing against sound doctrine. However, translations of books of the Old Testament may be allowed by the judgment of bishops for the use of learned and pious men only. These translations are to elucidate the Vulgate so that Sacred Scripture can be understood, but they are not to be considered as a sacred text. Translations of the New Testament made by authors of the first sections in this Index are not to be used at all, since too little usefulness and too much danger attends such reading.

Rule IV

Since experience teaches that, if the reading of the Holy Bible in the vernacular is permitted generally without discrimination, more damage than advantage will result because of the boldness of men, the judgment of bishops and inquisitors is to serve as guide in this regard. Bishops and inquisitors may, in accord with the counsel of the local priest and confessor, allow Catholic translations of the Bible to be read by those of whom they realize that such reading will not lead to the detriment but to the increase of faith and piety. The permission is to be given in writing. Whoever reads or has such a translation in his possession without this permission cannot be absolved from his sins until he has turned in these Bibles ...

Die Indices Librorum Prohibitorum des sechzehnten
Jahrhunderts (Tübingen, 1886), page 246f.

From UNIGENITUS, The Dogmatic Constitution issued by Pope Clement XI on Sept. 8, 1713:

The following statements are condemned as being error:

79. It is useful and necessary at all times, in all places, and for every kind of person, to study and to know the spirit, the piety, and the mysteries of Sacred Scripture.
80. The reading of Sacred Scripture is for all.
81. The sacred obscurity of the Word of God is no reason for the laity to dispense themselves from reading it.
82. The Lord's Day ought to be sanctified by Christians with readings of pious works and above all of the Holy Scriptures. It is harmful for a Christian to wish to withdraw from this reading.
83. It is an illusion to persuade oneself that knowledge of the mysteries of religion should not be communicated to women by the reading of Sacred Scriptures. Not from the simplicity of women, but from the proud knowledge of men has arisen the abuse of the Scriptures and have heresies been born.
84. To snatch away from the hands of Christians the New Testament, or to hold it closed against them by taking away from them the means of understanding it, is to close for them the mouth of Christ.
85. To forbid Christians to read Sacred Scripture, especially the Gospels, is to forbid the use of light to the sons of light, and to cause them to suffer a kind of excommunication.

From the Encyclical UBI PRIMUM of POPE LEO XII, MAY 5, 1824:

17. You have noticed a society, commonly called the Bible society, boldly spreading throughout the whole world. Rejecting the traditions of the holy Fathers and infringing the well-known decree of the Council of Trent,[16] it works by every means to have the holy Bible translated, or rather mistranslated, into the ordinary languages of every nation. There are good reasons for fear that (as has already happened in some of their commentaries and in other respects by a distorted interpretation of Christ's gospel) they will produce a gospel of men, or what is worse, a gospel of the devil![17]

18. To prevent this evil, Our predecessors published many constitutions. Most recently Pius VII wrote two briefs, one to Ignatius, Archbishop of Gniezno, the other to Stanislaus, Archbishop of Mohileu, quoting carefully and wisely many passages from the sacred writings and from the tradition to show how harmful to faith and morals this wretched undertaking is.

18. To prevent this evil, Our predecessors published many constitutions. Most recently Pius VII wrote two briefs, one to Ignatius, Archbishop of Gniezno, the other to Stanislaus, Archbishop of Mohileu, quoting carefully and wisely many passages from the sacred writings and from the tradition to show how harmful to faith and morals this wretched undertaking is.

19. In virtue of Our apostolic office, We too exhort you to try every means of keeping your flock from those deadly pastures. Do everything possible to see that the faithful observe strictly the rules of our Congregation of the Index. Convince them that to allow holy Bibles in the ordinary language, wholesale and without distinction, would on account of human rashness cause more harm than good.

From the encyclical INTER PRAECIPUAS (On Biblical Societies) by Pope Gregory XVI, May 8, 1844:

1. Among the special schemes with which non-Catholics plot against the adherents of Catholic truth to turn their minds away from the faith, the biblical societies are prominent. They were first established in England and have spread far and wide so that We now see them as an army on the march, conspiring to publish in great numbers copies of the books of divine Scripture. These are translated into all kinds of vernacular languages for dissemination without discrimination among both Christians and infidels. Then the biblical societies invite everyone to read them unguided. Therefore it is just as Jerome complained in his day: they make the art of understanding the Scriptures without a teacher" common to babbling old women and crazy old men and verbose sophists," and to anyone who can read, no matter what his status. Indeed, what is even more absurd and almost unheard of, they do not exclude the common people of the infidels from sharing this kind of a knowledge.

4. Moreover, regarding the translation of the Bible into the vernacular, even many centuries ago bishops in various places have at times had to exercise greater vigilance when they became aware that such translations were being read in secret gatherings or were being distributed by heretics. Innocent III issued warnings concerning the secret gatherings of laymen and women, under the pretext of piety, for the reading of Scripture in the diocese of Metz.[12] There was also a special prohibition of Scripture translations promulgated either in Gaul a little later[13] or in Spain before the sixteenth century.[14]


This is evidence that Rome, desires to keep knowledge, doctrine, and so forth secret. But why? Because Rome also seeks political power. For he who controls information controls people. Look at the communists, they had media black outs to control their people. But the Catholic church realized the information age was upon them, and they changed their tactics. They lost political power as well. Now they hold tight to the secrets they have, and they shrewdly control doctrines and do not answer all questions about them. They do this also, so time can create tradition, and with enough time, the tradition can be made into doctrine. But if they go too quickly, the people would know that it is not an accepted tradition.


In the last analysis, however, the Catholic doctrine does not rest on any direct Scriptural proof but on tradition, increasingly clear and unmistakable. More than one writer has pointed to a belief in Purgatory that was constantly developing. It was not so much a doctrine that was discussed, but a firm belief that was acted upon in day-to-day Christian living


After reviewing what Catholic writers have said regarding such texts as 2 Maccabees 12:39-45, Mattew 12:32,and 1Corintians 3:10-15, the New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967,Vol.X1,p.1034)acknowledges:" In the final analysis, the Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not Sacred Scripture."  

"The church has relied on tradition to support a middle ground between heaven and hell." -U.S Catholic,March 1981,p.7.  


By being smart and designing doctrines well, they can leave gaps, to be filled in the way they want, so time will fill the gap. This may come by private revelations or visions as well:

Purgatory has become a popular topic, mainly as the result of revelations during alleged apparitions of Our Lady and Our Lord. However, we cannot assume that all "revelations" are completely trustworthy. Some may mix human understanding with divine inspiration. Others may be outright deceptions from the Evil One.


Purgatory is a great example of such doctrine. The catholic church has very little to officially say about it. And I am sometimes condemned by catholics for saying that catholics teach there is work in purgatory. Rome may not officially teach this. But I believe they want to, and want this to become a tradition. Protestantism is a heavy enemy in this specific doctrine, so they are careful and slow.

But they do allow many catholics to make up their own mind about it, and they allow Dante's work to be used as an illustration of the doctrines of purgatory:

                     The Divine Comedy
                     as a part of
                     Catholic education

                     ...After reaching the bottom, the wayfarer and his guide climb up to the mountain of purgatory on the other side of the world...

                     ...As Dante and Virgil circle around the mountain of purgatory, at each level one of the seven deadly sins is purged...

                     ...Nevertheless, a course in Dante's Divine Comedy should be an integral part of Catholic education for young people...

                     ...A second reason it should be a part of our education is that it is a wonderful vehicle for transmitting the doctrines of our faith...

Did you see this catholic source claims Dante's Divine Comedy to be "a wonderful vehicle for transmitting the doctrines of our faith"?

Some may claim this source also says this: "...illustrated with the most powerful imagery...", saying the doctrine is imagery only, thus the work in the Divine Comedy is not real, but allegorical.

While that quote is true, the Hindu's led me to what Dante himself has said on the matter: 

found elsewhere:

At the very start, Dante tells the reader how the poem has to be read:  

The subject of this work must first be considered in the literal sense, then be considered allegorically. The subject of the work, taken in its literal sense, is simply the state of souls after death for the movement of the whole work hinges on this. But if the  work has to be taken allegorically, its subject is how man by the exercise of his free will justly merits reward or punishment.  

So I found this bit from Dante, myself, on the internet:

Letter to Can Grande della Scala

§ 7. [T]he meaning of this work is not of one kind only; rather the work may be described as 'polysemous', that is, having several meanings; for the first meaning is that which is conveyed by the letter, and the next is that which is conveyed by what the letter signifies; the former of which is called literal, while the latter is called allegorical, or mystical. And for the better illustration of this method of exposition we may apply it to the following verses: 'When Israel went out of Egypt, the house of Jacob from a people of strange language; Judah was his sanctuary, and Israel his dominion'. For if we consider the letter alone, the thing signified to us is the going out of the children of Israel from Egypt in the time of Moses; if the allegory, our redemption through Christ is signified; if the moral sense, the conversion of the soul from the sorrow and misery of sin to a state of grace is signified; if the anagogical, the passing of the sanctified soul from the bondage of the corruption of this world to the liberty of everlasting glory is signified. And although these mystical meanings are called by various names, they may one and all in a general sense be termed allegorical, inasmuch as they are different (diversi) from the literal or historical; for the word 'allegory' is so called from the Greek alleon, which in Latin is alienum (strange) or diversum (different).  

§ 8. This being understood, it is clear that the subject, with regard to which the alternative meanings are brought into play, must be twofold. And therefore the subject of this work must be considered in the first place from the point of view of the literal meaning, and next from that of the allegorical interpretation. The subject, then, of the whole work, taken in the literal sense only, is the state of souls after death, pure and simple. For on and about that the argument of the whole work turns. If, however, the work be regarded from the allegorical point of view, the subject is man according as by his merits or demerits in the exercise of his free will he is deserving of reward or punishment by justice.
Dante wishes the reader to look at the work both ways, literal and allegorical. But does Rome wish this? I think they do, but they are silent about it, and allow Dante to be used as a vehicle for doctrine, rather than doctrine itself.

I am told sometimes, that my assessment of Dante is singular, and that others do not agree that the Divine Comedy teaches work in purgatory. Here is a University:

7. How does Purgatory work? Does each sinner have to spend time on each terrace? How do we know when a soul is released from his/her terrace? (Hint: look at Statius in Canto 21)

How about the Divine Comedy itself?

that it is the law of Purgatory that no one may ascend the mountain at night : the darkness of the shadows afflicts the will with impotence.  


"Who knows on which hand now the steep declines?"  
My master said, and paused; "so that he may  
Ascend, who journeys without aid of wing?"  
And while, with looks directed to the ground,  
The meaning of the pathway he explored,  
And I gazed upward round the stony height;  
On the left hand appear'd to us a troop  
Of spirits, that toward us moved their steps;  
Yet moving seem'd not, they so slow approach'd.  

...we to climb Over this wall aspire...


Does the Catholic Church Teach that You Earn Salvation?  
A frequent charge made against the Catholic Church is that because it says one must be obedient unto salvation, it thereby teaches that we earn salvation.


Is there any other catholic sources that speak of work in purgatory? Yes, some catholic saints:

 "I was talking with some souls who, while on their way from Purgatory to Heaven, stopped here to thank me because I remembered them in my Mass this morning." (Padre Pio)  

                     (sounds like a journey to me...)

"More souls of the dead from Purgatory than of the living climb this mountain to attend my Masses and seek my prayers."   (Padre Pio)  

                     (the journey involves climbing...)

 "The soul keeps rising ever higher and higher, stretching with its desire for heavenly things to those that are before, as the Apostle tells us (in Philippians 3:13) and, thus, it will always continue to soar ever higher. For, because of what it has already attained, the soul does not wish to abandon the heights that lie beyond it. And, thus, the soul moves ceaselessly upwards, always reviving its tension for its onward flight by means of the progress it has already realized." (St. Gregory of Nyssa)


The question may be asked, "Why promote work, when everyone in purgatory is going to heaven?". My response is, what if those in Purgatory, refuse to work, refuse to climb the mountain, refuse to go further. Do they gain heaven nonetheless? Do they reach the goal in the same amount of time? Thus work is involved, if freewill is involved. Freewill, some may suggest, may not be involved. If it is not involved, why did Padre Pio, speak of them being thankful? Why did St. Gregory of Nyssa speak of stretching with desire? This alludes to repentance. What if someone does not wish to repent, if they didn't wish to repent on earth? I am speaking of believers, not unbelievers.

Thus work is IMPLIED by Rome's purgatory.

Any more evidence? Sure:

CCC #2092: "There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God's almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit)."  

St. Peter's Catechism (1972, p. 19) states, "All the souls in purgatory will go to Heaven when they have atoned for their sins."


More problems linking to work and freewill:  

Catholic Encyclopedia

Augustine (De Civ. Dei, lib. XXI, cap.xiii and xvi) declares that the punishment of purgatory is temporary and will cease, at least with the Last Judgment.

If purgatory stops at the Last Judgment, where will the souls go who need purgatory when the world ends? And do those at the Throne have to wait for those in purgatory to come out, so judgments may be made? Or is purgatory ended despite its occupants being not ready at judgment time?


And the final evidence that the catholic purgatory has freewill and work involved:

Thurcal said that the sufferers have to pass over a bridge studded with sharp nails with points upturned. The souls have to walk barefoot on this rough road and many ease their feet by using their hands. Others roll with the whole body on the perforating nails until, at last, bloodily pierced, they complete their way over the painful course. Thus, in due course, they escape to heaven.


Of coarse the Bible does speak of a fiery judgment for unfaithful believers. But this isn't a place, this isn't purgatory. To learn about the true Biblical purging fire for believers, click on the link below:

 Does the Bible teach a purgatory for believers?

And to see my 1st page for Catholics, click on the next link below:

 For the Catholic

 I also discuss the catholic church, along with other liturgical churches who will be left behind at the rapture, here:

 The 2 & a Half Tribes that didn't Cross Over

I discuss how to get raptured, here:

 Are You Prepared for the 2nd Coming?

I also discuss the final fate of the unrepentant Catholic Church, here:


Many claim that the pope is The Anti-christ, but the Bible says otherwise:

 The Anti-christ, Whore of Babylon, & more  

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